DigitalituM Podcast - At the Intersection of Manufacturing and Digital Transformation

DigitalituM Podcast Episode 2 - Thomas with Visao - Visualization of 3D CAD models

• Thomas Paquin-Lamontagne • Season 2 • Episode 2

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 Manufacturing has its challenges! Digital Transformation has its challenges! 

Welcome to the DigitalituM Podcast, where we delve into the intersection of manufacturing and digital transformation. 

Summary
In this episode, Markus Rimmele interviews Thomas Paquin Lamontage, the founder and CEO of VISAO. This software company visualizes complex 3D CAD models through web and augmented reality. Thomas discusses how VISAO addresses the challenges of showcasing and demonstrating complex equipment and machinery, especially in sales and marketing. He explains how their web-based 3D engine allows for easy access and deployment of 3D models without additional software installations. Thomas also highlights the importance of security and IP protection in their platform and shares success stories of how VISAO has significantly impacted their clients' businesses.

Takeaways
VISAO specializes in visualizing complex 3D CAD models through web and augmented reality.

  • Their web-based 3D engine allows for easy access and deployment of 3D models without additional software installations.
  • VISAO addresses the challenges of showcasing and demonstrating complex equipment and machinery, especially in sales and marketing.
  • Security and IP protection are important considerations in their platform.
  • VISAO has had success in helping clients improve their sales, marketing, and training processes.

SHOW NOTES and LINKS:

Digitalitum Website: https://digitalitum.com/

DigitalituM LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digitalitum/

Markus's LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markusrimmele/

Thomas LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomaspaquinlamontagne/
Visao website: https://visao.ca/

Product demonstration:

- Maschinex Production Cell : https://demo.visao.ca/viewer/OmVyZSvpTMeQjf0asXJcuw
- Instruction video on how to: https://youtu.be/UJwD8geQ_9Q?si=XriEdjFlc1NvkUDq
- Integration of Visao viewer into the website: https://www.simardsuspensions.com/en/products/front-suspension/ams40t2/
https://www.creaform3d.com/en/portable-3d-scanner-handyscan-3d

- Machitech Automation - model with Animation: https://demo.visao.ca/viewer/TPZe4IirRM27i7ojXHM6Xw
https://demo.visao.ca/viewer/NWmuyTmWTzG53ZL5CXweMA

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We appreciate your likes and comments. If you feel you can add value to this podcast series and want to be our guest, send an email to Sales@DigitalituM.com

Welcome to the DigitalituM podcast, where we delve into the dynamic world of manufacturing and digital transformation. I'm Markus Rimmele your host, and today we're exploring the unique challenges and innovative solutions shaping the future of manufacturing. Manufacturing, a cornerstone of our global economy, faces an array of challenges, from optimizing production processes to ensuring quality control and maintaining a skilled workforce. In parallel, the digital transformation journey presents its own hurdles. Integrating new technology, managing data, fostering a culture of continuous improvement are just a few obstacles companies encounter. In this podcast series, we'll discuss these problems and more importantly, the solutions that are making a real difference on the shop floor. We'll dive into how cutting edge digital technologies like augmented reality, virtual reality, IoT, AI, and others are being leveraged to address specific use cases. Whether it's enhancing training programs, improving machine maintenance, or optimizing production workflows, these technologies pave the way for a smarter, more efficient manufacturing operations. In this podcast series, we introduce you to some of the industry's leading voices, peers of me who are in the forefront of digital revolutions. They'll share their insights, experience, and transformative impact of digital tools in their respective fields. So sit back, relax, and join as we explore the intersection of manufacturing and digital technology. Welcome to Digitalitum Podcast. Today's guest is Thomas Paquin Lamontage, founder and CEO of VISAO a software company based in Quebec, Canada, that focuses on the visualization of complex 3D CAD models through web and augmented reality. Thomas holds a degree in international business development and finance and an MBA from the University of Laval in Montreal, Canada, and founded VISAO in 2018. Welcome Thomas. Thanks Markus thanks for having me. So let's dive right into the topic and tell the audience a little bit more about your background and how did you found the result. Yeah, thanks again for having me. So, so yeah, so previously of a founding of VISAO I've been working in the international sales development. So mostly I've been doing. mandates as a manufacturing agent to develop markets in Germany, in Asia, and also in South America. So kind of the premise of using 3D came out of challenges I've been meeting, you know, exploring new market, having to demonstrate products abroad to develop new channels for sales development. And yet the whole challenge of bringing the physical product on site was meet during that time. having the physical product with me, having obviously different configuration that we were unable to demonstrate at this point and simply demonstrate how our product truly works. And obviously all the costs, the intangibles, all the certification according to bringing the products on site was very difficult. And... you know, using those images and videos were just not enough to demonstrate, you know, all the complexity and the benefits of the products I was demonstrating. And that's when I was thinking and exploring more about what we can do as sales representative as a. reps to develop new market with using 3D. And I found out it was way more used in engineering and the support at that time. So there were not the tools. I see relevant for people in my position to use in that. So that's what gave me that boost to say, hey, we need to go out there and bring a solution that will keep people as I was doing. And I... Obviously seeing that many industries, many companies, many people could definitely benefit from that. So yeah, starting from a step to another. Initially we've been doing more custom development, but since three years we've been developing and implementing our... software as a service solution. So subscription based platform that is now used by all of our users across the world. So it's been, yeah, fun times so far, but that's where I've been coming from. Wow, that's quite impressive. So you actually worked in sales for complex equipment machinery and you found that problem that it's very difficult to transfer that message. What is this piece of equipment all about? What is the value of it? And in the traditional approach, as we all know, there's this paper brochure with a lot of technical text and maybe here and there a picture of the machine which doesn't really give us much content and context. And you understood this as a problem and then figured out what could be a solution for that to make this all better, faster, more efficient. And... I mean, 3D, like interactive 3D is simply, you know, a media format. So obviously 3D was already there at that time, mostly with renderings and animated videos. Obviously with renderings, you don't have any movements. So for, you know, industrial equipment, transport equipment, and even medical devices having, you know, these animations and changing the point of view on the model, all this interactive feature added, you know, of value in the sales demonstration and just helping the representative and even on the buyer, simplify the communication within the buying and the sales processes that obviously implicates also different stakeholders. So it's not only the engineering, could be the CFO. Lots of people are implicated within these. So they all need to understand what's the added value from an equipment to another. So... So the renderings were clearly not helping in that way. Obviously doing great picture is obviously very good, but we thought we could push it further. And 3D animated videos, which are still broadly used and very helpful. So I'm not. nothing against it. So, but the fact is the point to maintaining, you know, all the different updates on the products, sell like the elements of interactivity that we can use in the sales and buying process help to achieve, you know, very specific demonstration and exhibition in sales demonstrating, which is a lot easier to be used and also to maintain by the time. So that's also the different elements we've seen from the technologies already being used. and where we can have value with the technology we've been developing. So let's go back to the to the founding days. So you were in the role of a sales manager and you had that problem to translate that all. How did you start with the idea and then start your company? And I assume that yourself is not a programming guy, a computer expert who can do that all. How did you get started with that by finding the right people, the idea, the funding from a monetary standpoint. Tell us a little bit about the early days of Wiesau. Yes, yes. So the approach, I mean, as being a sales, mostly like a not a business guy, but let someone involved more in sales operation, I was a perfect position for understanding the challenges, the pain and what people were looking out there to achieve better quotas, help develop new markets. So I really have this point of view that I think a lot of people come into, you know, interactive treaty within that industry without having the maybe have more the technical side, which is obviously necessary also. But from my standpoint, my point of view, my point of view when I started, obviously what I wanted to do as much as I can was, you know, meeting different manufacturing companies. Obviously it can go wide. I mean, if you go from, you know, industrial equipments or, you know, furniture manufacturer, they have different challenges, different. complexity on the products, different challenges of dating, so that the product development process and cycle is different. So obviously, there had to be an alignment and positioning into where we feel we can have the more value because obviously, in all, not on all the different sectors, you can achieve as much success as others. So we really wanted to take the time to... think about the positioning, meet people and started to iterate and start prototypes. And that's what we've been doing since already, you know, some time, but still, you know, time goes on so quickly that technology evolves also quickly. And also, you know, with having COVID, I've been different also. heavens during all of that change, reshaped also the way I think OEMs has been thinking about how they can market their product, how they can reach to customer. I mean, I remember meeting people during COVID and they, you know, share with me, they never thought they could, you know, sell their equipment without going, you know, meet their customer, you know, in person. So now they just realized that. on a site and present a brochure or running a PowerPoint presentation to explain a product, which through a solution like VISAO, you can do that also in a remote environment. Exactly. So obviously I'm still a believer in person, meeting with your customer and going to exhibitions. So I think, and still we support customers also in that case, but then just in productivity and also opportunities you can create by remote working and being able to achieve way more without to... going abroad and then working from your home and working from your office. That's where having your product alive and accessible in 3D on the web really made sense in so many ways for the go -to-market strategies, so along with the sales process, but even in acquiring new potential customers. So that's where it started mostly in that case, yeah. And how did you find your first clients and what were the first use cases to use the software? And over the last years, as Visawa was founded in 2018, there's also a progress and innovation and change. Can you go a little bit to that? How was it at the beginning? And how does Visawa stand right now? Which to my understanding is more like on a product stage, not a custom individual anymore. Yeah, yeah, it's been, I mean, gradually, I'd say like naturally evolving, I think with the maturity of the software development, obviously, and also the full understanding of the process where the 3D models will be used, the way it will be used. So different things that all of those things cannot be fully predicted and still change as your destiny and implementing, you know, in the real world. So to begin, obviously, I had some already customer in my network that companies I already know. So I'm located in Quebec City in Canada. So we have a great manufacturing industry here in various sectors. So when we have very open -minded leaders to get initially just to start talking about it and see the different point where we can have value and start prototyping and pilot project and then evolving into more... deployment at scale. So I'll say just room, you know, naturally. So and since obviously we've been approached and reaching out to companies, you know, in Europe, in the US, in Asia, different parts of the world, obviously. So I'll say that's kind of came out this way. So very naturally reference from customer also, since I mean, we're we're not a VC back, angel back, you know, company we've been growing with. as we did with our customers. So we aim to really score and achieve high productivity and very valuable product with all of our customer, all of the users we have with our software. So that's how we've been, kind of the philosophy we've been having and still have today. And I'll say this transition from the custom development to the SaaS development really came naturally after about a year and a half of implementing with different customer and really seeing the needs and where's the biggest value where we can give access, first of all, on the editing side to our customers. So what does customer, the users want to do and have control? And also what's the part where technically we have more expertise within our service and integration service where we can. really ramp up first and the first project are still collaborate with our service team, with the engineering and marketing team, with the organization we're working with. So, it really came up when we seen this pinpoint and say, all right, the model of development and the model also of distribution of the solution will be much greater this way. So we'll be definitely adding more value to our existing customer. And that's where it really came naturally also to our existing users to move on the new platform we develop. And since it's been truly the great move to do that, helping speed up innovation and new, just adding value to the daily life and daily task of sales, development, or representatives. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, let's dive a little bit about the technology behind Vizau. What is, can you explain that, how that all works and how do you visualize content in Web3D and augmented reality? And also what sets apart your way at Vizau from others on the market which kind of do similar things? Yes, that's a very, very good question. So the first one and very important is our 3D. It's basically we developed a 3D engine. So and our 3D engine is web based. So which means that the. the model, the editing phase of the project is done within a customer's dashboard, which is web hosted. So that's a big point on that. So we have no seat number limits. So everyone within our organization can access it as much as they want. So we really want to fasten and liberate the access of the content creation phase within our platform. but also the deployment of the 3D viewers, which are the 3D screens in which the 3D model are deployed, everything is web-based too. So most of the time I compare it to Vimeo or YouTube, which you can access already hosted. videos, but it's really the same element with the 3D models. So because what we were seeing with other solutions such as video game engines, which are mostly obviously very powerful on the 3D graphics, but the deployment on the web and within sales organization and given that access easily to salespeople, to customer, to use it on the website, to use it in all these different places that where are we most? I mean, most of the time when I'm working, I'm always open. You know, my Google Chrome browser is always open and I have different tabs, but that's where I'm working. So that's where you should give access to your users. I mean, as much as your sales forces, as your customer to be using, you know, the 3D model. So that's where we really focus. And obviously doing all of that on the web. I mean, all the web 3D technologies are mostly normally aligned with B2C, you know, with the more simple. products. So we definitely go out there with the big ones, the difficult ones, the more complex ones. So our positioning is very strong on helping, you know, and some of our customers can believe, you know, that we get these one gigabytes, you know, 3D model originally and make them, you know, open so fast on a web browser. So that's definitely, you know, both technical on the software part, you know, technology and features we've been developing within our software that helps, you know, to get the model just loading faster in the ways you want to demonstrate it on the web. And also we have the expertise on the service side, so on the way we can use this data that the OEMs we work with provide with us to create the projects. So I'll say it's both a technical side and also the expertise we have within our service team. Yeah, what I really like about the Vizau is first of all, it's not an application. So you don't need to install any type of software app either on your computer, on your smartphone, on your tablet. It's all web browser based. And we see nowadays specifically in the corporate environment that it's actually getting more and more difficult to install a specific app as IT is blocking everything off. And a traditional way of sharing a CAD model is, for example, to share the native step file from SolidWorks AutoCAD into a viewer, but you have to install this viewer and you need installation privileges and you have to run to IT first in order to get that. And it's always a big burden. If you just can do that through a secure link on a web browser, it's black and play. It works, it's hardware independent. It doesn't matter if you run OS or Windows or Linux or whatever. Exactly. And that's one of the elements we've been in that, you know, custom development phase we've seen in projects like the amount of effort necessary to just get the sales forces, the sales representative to download, you know, iOS app and our Android app or web app, you know, on the computer was just so much effort was as... As much, it's not even more difficult than just developing the whole project and the whole application we've been doing for weeks. So we really saw that the deployment phase was truly a struggle in that kind of infrastructure. So we felt the way like the deploy units on the web, but obviously some, the ability to control, because it can go anywhere, anywhere, it can go. anywhere also, but the ability to control where and who is going to see it in some cases, if that's what the users target. But yeah, the ability to liberate the access and being able to scale it across multiple users across the world and across the web is truly like what brings a lot of value into that and bringing that experience just available to the people you want at the moment you want to. Very good. Let's go a little bit through that process in how it actually works. So let's imagine I'm a OEM, a machine builder, and I have my beautiful machine in, let's say, SOLIDWORKS, all big detailed CAD file, and I want that now over in VISAO. How does it work step by step? What needs to be done on the OEM side? and then also on the Vizawa side in order to get that into that 3D visualization and next additional step to get the augmented reality model on your tablet or phone. Exactly. Good point. So to start, I mean, we rarely start project without having, you know, product data. And most of the time the product data is our, you know, CAD models already developed through SolidWorks, Inventor, Fusion 360, or could be, you know, any CAD software out there. So we mainly focus on... independent there? Does it really matter what CAD software is used? Does it need to be in a specific format like a step format or you're taking more or less all the different formats which are on the market? Yeah, we've been using even importing native format in SolidWorks, but mostly, I'll say our most efficient pipeline or process is done with the step files. So we want obviously a format that any OEMs can export and share the data within. So that was obviously from the different CAD software, something possible and something we can kind of create our most common workflow. So yeah, so most of the time, yeah, we work when we work with the OEMs that provide the step file of their equipments and then we convert it within the platform. So we use, and that's something I think important to mention, but in our platform, we use actually like geometrical model, mesh model. So these are... triangles, rectangles, so it's a shell of the products, which is important details to mention because it's obviously much safer to use than any CAD models out there directly on the web. It's much more also efficient to simplify the model. to create the animations and all the different configuration that might be wanted on the product. So I'll say that conversion that all 3D modeling, 3D model creation face is most of, I say, 85 % of the time done through our integrator team. In some cases, OEMs have the... people internally that have the expertise and the time to be creating the model. So that's something also that can be done. And then from there, they can simply use the platform on which you can upload the 3D model, do the full model and scene editing, and yeah, have access to the different editing. module that we have to the platform which could be the step -by -step demonstration. You can create the content edition, the language management because obviously our users work in multilingual international environments. So they need to provide information in English, German, Spanish, and French. So that's a big... can do all the different languages, whatever is needed and add that to it. Exactly, exactly. So really like custom and customize the team, everything you can see within that 3D model screen in which the model is being deployed. And obviously also they can manage different parameters for the deployment. So if the way they want it to be shared, they want to use it embed on the... let's say on the existing software website, already a customer portal so they can deploy it also in different ways. So everything can be managed through the portal from that phase. So that enables us to work with businesses that have already, the people internally that can do the 3D modeling creation. Even in some cases we've been training teams, engineering teams to take that part internally. But as I mentioned before, most of the time we can create lots of values, especially I think for first phase project and then once it speeds up and if some customer prefer to work and create the models internally at some scale, that's something obviously we provide all the support and training to do. So at the, let's say first model, you guys provide that service of converting the model into the Web3D model, but you also provide the training for further models that your client can do it themselves if they have the resources. And if not, they still can use your services for that. Exactly. Especially, I mean, in the even like in sales and marketing projects and even in service and training for I mean, for the application of the 3D models, most of the time they need, you know, animations and already that's different also expertise. So depending on the complexity, but most of the time they're quite complex animations when we want, you know, equipment simulations, you know, like. demonstrating how the equipment works, also how you can change maintenance, how you can change parts on the equipment. So most of these animations are just not vertical and lateral movement of the product, so they need a little bit more skills. So that's where we can create lots of value in creating these animations very quickly for our users. So that's the reason why I think we still do that quite a lot. Very good. Another question for you, security and IP, intellectual property, is always a big topic specifically for machine builders. And one argument I'm hearing is when I put now my machine, my equipment, in all its details out in the web, maybe the competition is stealing the details out of this, which is not good. What do you guys do in that area to kind of help to keep the IP and maybe blur certain things out? Can you talk about that? Yeah, yeah, that's a very good point. I mean, obviously, initially, like OEMs, our users have full control on the data they've been sharing with us. So, I mean, if already like the, let's say, for example, they have some components like the, you know, internal part of a engine or something specific that they don't want to share or just don't want to have on the model, they can simply just erase it or don't export it within the step file they will provide. So that's obviously a measure that can be taken internally. Also, obviously, when we're developing and co -developing these 3D models with our customer and the engineering, marketing, and sales teams, also they can... make us aware of, you know, we can communicate to get to know, all right, these elements we don't want to showcase and this also, you know, with these 3D scenes, lots of technical things as a zoom control, camera limits, different things like already like parameters we can have within the 3D viewers, not giving access to the different things. Sometimes also we can switch, you know, instead of having, you know, a geometric component, we can have just a texture to fake it so people already see how it's been made. So there's lots of tricks that we can take care of and we just, as we work closely with our users, that's something, I mean, that's always being addressed before sharing anything. So I think that's the most important thing in all of that process. With that being said, also they have control over the URL that they're being shared. So if they want to add the... Experiency dates is also a password. There's different all types of URL management that can be done out there. So. different ways how to share the CAD model. You can go through a secure link with an expiration date, but if you want, you also can embed it publicly in your website, which I saw on some of the models you shared. So it depends on how an OEM or manufacturer would like to do it. Exactly. Sometimes, I mean, it's always depend on the nature of the products, but they have full control on the data input, how we can manage experience, like what people see and don't within the 3D viewer, and also on the output, like how it's going to be accessible. So, yeah, obviously, it's always important to have great communication with the users to know their need and different elements on that, but that's surely something we take care of. on the 3D modeling side also all the different models we've been creating with our customer to access all the native raw files that have been created. So all the IP of anything will be created out of the step models that are shared with us, it's all in possession of our customer and they can access it at any time on the platform. So something very important too, because obviously the invests... efforts and a lot of time, you know, in developing those models. So it's very important they can keep that on their side for future project and anything you want to do with it. So, yeah. Let's dive a little bit more about the use cases. What are some of the key use cases of your application in sales marketing training? Can you go through a couple of them? Yeah, yeah, obviously with my sales development background, mostly the first application I've been very aligned, you know, in showcasing the products in 3D and exhibitions and, you know, on site, you know, in person demonstration as we've been also going through COVID and the... getting to work more and more from our computers, from our homes. So doing those webinars and doing these virtual demonstration directly on Zoom or Teams or all these conference platform has been more and more use case that we've seen in that way. Also in the marketing side using the 3D models on the website. Obviously sometimes like... Let's say less complex version are mostly been used in that case. So maybe you don't want to give too many information at that point, but just having the model and giving access to that very cool experience to potential customers so they can see and learn more about the product directly on the website. That's something we see more and more from our customers. So. So yes, that's been kind of our core since the beginning, but naturally we've been also evolving and that's where I think the future that holds more and more for VISAO is being the ability we have also to address training service processes also and being kind of a 360 tool for kind of being the bridge from the engineering side to help, you know, the communication from. the sales department, for the marketing department, but also for the service department. So we have many, many users who have, you know, complex and challenges on building training, training programs. They wanted to create also, you know, online platform in which users and dealers or distributors wanted to access, you know, different trainings. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. And still with that web deployment infrastructure that we have, like the ability to deploy, to use that content very, very quickly on the web was truly a big factor of the different success use cases we've been having in that typical application. And we've been doing more and more and more. since I say a year and two years, it's been very, very great on that side. And we see lots of big value, especially for complex trainings, the interactive step -by -step demonstration is just so good and just so visual. So it truly helps the users at the end want to achieve those maintenance and even trainers to explain how to do them, to access better information. quicker and also we have a viewer API that involves to, as you were talking of learning management software. So we can be very easily integrated on any LMS. They can manage anything they can see and cannot see from the 3D viewer with the API. So the great, just give a full package, great environment to fasten the content creation for service to. Yeah, let's talk more about success stories. Can you share some success stories where we saw significantly impacted a client's business and made something better and helped really in either sales, marketing, or in a training task? Yes, I think we have many ones. One of our first one is actually one of the first customer user we've been having a couple of years ago, but is a La Rue, a snow blower manufacturer, OEM here in Quebec City. So, won't be surprised that we have expertise in doing that in Canada. So, yeah, so I mean, initially the project was mostly aligned for sales and marketing, you know, application, which we've done. I mean, they've been using their customer portal. for showcasing how their equipment works, so creating these tours around the equipment, so definitely for enabling all their dealerships across North America, but even Europe to access better showcasing. data and interactive demos for their sales process. So that was the initial intent, but very quickly we've been also implementing with those exact same models, but just with different animation on the LMS creation in which we've been able to create. of different trainings very, very quickly. So the speed in which we've been implementing all of these different trainings and obviously the difficulty of having the physical product on site and the speed and the... easiness of creating all of the different animation and training sequence on the 3D model side, but also in the sequence side for, and that's all of these training has been created by a marketing coordinator that had no backgrounds in 3D software. So that's really what made us very proud and really validated the. easiness of our platform and how scalable can be used within organizations. So truly what I would see as a success in that case, and we see that more and more with customers, being able to have this 360 view and just adding value from the engineering data that's been provided from this OEM within their sales, their marketing activities, but also in service phase. So that's a big one I could mention. Yeah, and even on trade shows, I see an application for that as a lot of machine builders and OEM still showcase real equipment in their booth, which we all know has its challenges as you have to move that thing and install it and run it, which is quite expensive. And then you showcase only one machine of your portfolio of let's say 10 or 100 different things. be able to showcase a whole portfolio of machinery through a web browser and the additional function of the augmented reality is a big add -on for either in-person consultation or on a trade show or other use cases. Exactly, exactly. It's designed to just think about, you know, anywhere, any places, any context you're collaborating, you want to explain something about the products, how it works, how we can add value, create value for the users. That's where we intend to give access to that interactive format to give a better tool for representatives or even for people in service with that product. Do you think we are able to put in the show notes a couple of different links, publicly available of course, where people can explore VISAO and the visualization of certain machinery? Of course, of course you can see many ones on our website already, but yeah, that'll be my pleasure. Very good. Let's look a little also into the future. What do you see in current trends in this whole field of immersive technology? Beginning of the year, there was this big thing about the Apple Vision Pro and the immersive field and virtual reality versus augmented reality and mixed reality. Where do you think that the past goes? What do you see as benefits and how does Visal take this to further develop and transform? Yeah, on the - I mean, there's obviously lots of different things moving as you were mentioning with VR, AR, and then obviously these, I mean, are amazing technologies that add a great value and truly a fan of those. In our case in VISAO, we want to stand closer on this web infrastructure that provide scalability to the usage of 3D models of the information that's being shared. So definitely on our side and where I see bright future and even more use cases. and just being able to create content faster and give access to that content in different versions way faster within an organization and different departments and also in teams across the world. So really the scalability of our solution, so being more vertical within the same organization. just working along the product development cycle. So that's where we truly see where our positioning and where we can continue to add value within our software and different feature and what we already do, but just put that on the next level. So that's our point of view. Obviously there's other solutions that are more precisely aiming something specific as you were talking with the Apple Vision Pro. So on our side is truly to give access faster and get these experiences to be created more easily by OEMs to create those experiences at scale within their organization. So that's where we stand as our positioning for the next year. Yeah, that's very good. And as I always say, there are a lot of digital tools out there and the challenge is always to use the right tool for the right application. And there might be, or there are use cases out there where immersive virtual reality can add value, but there are also use cases where just the pure 3D visualization or augmented reality. can add value where you don't need additional hardware, for example, to get that information. Exactly, exactly. Obviously, as we use scalability and our users already use different software, they use CRM, they use MMS, they use different tools that they're already daily using and we see more and more and more software and it becomes more difficult to access and get to know where to use them and having access to them. So I think as a software development company, I think our job is not to put more burden on our users. use them in different environment. I think it's to be more connected, to develop environment ecosystems, to be out there and just accessible to help those sales representative or just users to achieve what they want to achieve. So that's our vision in our team. And as you very well explained, I think there's different shoes for different type of context. But yeah, I'm sure in our case, we'll be able to... to cover and add value with a lot of organization in the coming years. And that's where we as DigitalituM come in place as we have technology partners like VISAO, but many others in our portfolio, or as we call it, our digital toolbox. We understand on one side that the problems out there in the manufacturing and machine building industry, and then have in our toolkit, couple of different solutions, and then can connect the right problem to the right tool. to solve that issue. And we of course for specific use cases are happy to recommend and guide through the implementation process with VISAO specifically to clients in the in the Southeast United States as we are Atlanta, Georgia based. Yeah, exactly. What I've been really enjoying about our collaboration and your expertise is obviously, you know, there's nothing, I mean, there's not as much value in just presenting a 3D model of an equipment online, just focusing, making it turn 360. That's not the real value about it. It's when you get to know about the challenges of organization, self-representative, like what's challenging to explain, what's the different elements and the fish in. different parts of the equipment or what they want to showcase differently from their competitor or what's mostly specific they want to communicate with their users. So that's where we can, I think really align more accurately and create even more value than just showcasing the product in 3D is just using that as a communication tool. And that's where I see a lot of value working with you. with for already, you know, a couple of years and yeah, looking forward to keep on with that. Yeah, this is actually a good summary. Thank you, Thomas, for joining the Digitality podcast. Please take a look in the show notes. We put a couple of different publicly available models of VISAO in, so you can explore yourself the magic of seeing a complex machinery through your web browser in 3D, turn it around, and then with the... What is the view in your space button? Generate a QR code, take your phone or your tablet and then visualize that piece of equipment in your room right behind you and walk around it and see it in, if you want, full size. Yes, thanks for having me Markus. It was a lot of fun. Thanks again. Thanks for having you. Bye. Bye bye.

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Markus Rimmele

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